And who. praytell, is the group to define our country's "moral conscience"? I see your not ok with what I believe to be the law of the land, how is your opinion more valid? To make this about economics is a shallow dodge at the real agenda of taking away a woman's choice to do with her own body as HER conscience dictates..

Jake you got it all wrong. Do what you want with YOUR body. Once a baby is conceived it is no longer, JUST YOUR body. Just think if your mom had an abortion. Would you be ok with that? I love the quote by Ronald Reagan that goes something to the effect "Only those who have themselves been born can advocate to abort those who have not." Life is life is life is life. You cannot change that. Don't bring out the "moral" or "religious" card on me. Life is life- YOU cannot deny that or take that away. Do you believe you are going to rot after you die? Or do you believe there is something for you after? We are all held accountable for our lives here and taking a life that was NOT YOURS is despicable, absolutely disgusting. How dare you or anyone be so self centered that you cannot see the light of day, the life of a defenseless child. My mother gave birth to me at the age of 17. Her own mother
AND good ol' Planned Parenthood tried to tell her that abortion was her best option. I am now a grown adult with several beautiful young children. None of us would be here had my mom and doctors ended my life. I know women who have had abortions and my heart goes out to them. SO much pain and remorse and feelings of sadness bestow them. Many too young to understand the ramifications of their decision. This anti- child crap in this country has got to stop. We are killing our own using taxpayers money. This will not go on without consequence. You cannot end a life without it.
Jake, this ain't about the "woman's body"- this is about the life a child.

Well said Leah!

If my mother had an abortion during her preganancy with me, I'd have never known the difference, now would I ?

And it's that woman's body..period. Not yours to say what she should do with, hers. And until the third trimester, she has the right to terminate. Period.

Jake, for someone that does not value his own life, I certainly do not expect you to value others'.

Jake I am glad to see you are concerned with the "moral conscience" of society, and womens rights. A society that is able to justify the termination of a human life through mechanical or chemical separation from the uterine wall does not beleive that that life has value. No that is not the life of a fish or a tree or an ameba. Jake that is human life at a certain stage. Like you, you are at a certain stage. You no longer are a child nor are you a centenarian. The fact that you cannot understand that that is LIFE and should be valued, and protected as much as your own shows that you define life based on your own criteria. Just a question, Whose moral law does Jake follow? You want a dose of morality, get out of you chair, go down to your local abortion clininc (P.P.) and ask them if you can look into the bucket that they through these precious babies in after one of these procedures. If they ever would let you see I bet you would think twice about what comes out of your mouth next, Jake.

WELL DONE.

nbtt -

No matter how horrible the act is, the act is still legal. Period. And I suspect it will stay that way. That being said, how many adopted save from abortion children have you raised? Or do you provide another "solution" but not back that up with action?

There is no "antiChild" crap. I'm very pro Child - I just am also pro choice and a realist as to what will happen to these unwanted, uncared for children....And if there are so cared for (for whoever answers), let me know your more than talk by telling me how many you've adopted...

Wow Jake, I am impressed, womens rights AND child's rights advocate. Am I also to understand you have adopted children as well. Jake lets go back to the south 1850, slavery is legal-is it moral? How about 1919 women do not yet have the right to vote, I bet you would have made a great suffragette, or how about 2008 Obama repeals the abortion gag rule. I guess you are right Jake, abortion will end no time soon thanks to likes of people like you. Now yours and my tax money get to fund abortion worldwide. I guess that's a good thing huh, because it legal, right? What moral law does Jake follow? Jake you sound like you work for the SPCA. "what will happen to these unwanted,uncared for children... " I bet Jake would just as soon have everyone neutered that could not properly care for their children. Just what criteria would Jake lay out for couples that want children? Jake, think for a minute what actually takes place when a women, mostly young girls, go into an abortion clinic. Think about the procedure and then what is actually being disposed of. Just because this act is legal does not make it OK. The reason this country has performed 40+ million abortions since Roe v Wade is because people like you have been made to believe that it is all about "choice", when in reality it is only a choice to quietly murder the consequences of their action. The choice was made when the action that conceived LIFE was. Stop listening to what your culture is telling you. This argument between you and I is really about what we believe right? Well I am telling you, that I am willing to bet you will change your mind on what you believe if you go look in the bucket, Jake.

I'm sorry, I guess I must have missed where you told us how many alternative solutions to abortion you had provided.

And yes, I would have fought for women to vote. I'd fight to to make sure abortion (safe and legal abortion that is) remains legal. I'm also for gay marriage - crazy ol me !

And the SPCA comment - I do have neutered animals. I'd rather no be responsible for more uncared animals in shelters. It's a logical place to be when I believe that I'd rather not see kids being raised in orphanages, unloved or as a paycheck for foster families.

And people like me - the ones who know it's all about choice - wil continue to stand up for abortion rights. That is, unless one of your kind guns us down or blows us up. Funny how your kind can care so much about life, but take it if the person who doesn't agree with you get's within the crosshairs....

Don't be sorry Jake. Jake, for your "alternative solution" (sounds like Jake has "The Final Solution"), asked and answered, please re-read previous blog. And as for the history lesson, I guess the point of it flew right over your head, you might get that one 2nd day air, I will be tracking the package. As for your new plight to save all the uncared for animals, don't you see a difference? Dog, human- dog, human? No? Whose moral law DOES Jake follow?? Your own? I tell you what, since you won't look in the bucket, try talking to someone who has had an abortion. Just a regular Jane. Ask if she still feels like it was the right thing to do and if she would do it again. Did you know the biggest pro-life advocates are those who have had an abortion? Jake you are stuck in the box, for one in not being able to see this is about the killing of INNOCENT LIFE. Jake, this is not about what you think it is about. It is not a decision to go down and have a clinical sterile procedure done because it is the best decision for the unwanted life or an inconvenience to Jake. It's not about me wanting more orphanages or unloved kids in the world. It's about control. Funny how you don't want to be responsible for unwanted animals, but you have no problem being responsible for providing abortions on demand, (worldwide?). Hey Jake, I know, why don't we just not allow anyone to get pregnant? We can just make it mandatory for all males and females (because we don't discriminate) to go on birth control. If in fact you and your state approved partner want a child all's ya have to do is qualify in the state approved program for procreation, oop's let's leave creation out of this. That implies someone else has a hand in this life duplication thing and possible ramifications for deciding who gets to live and who gets to die. As for your last comment, no you're not in my crosshairs, as a matter of fact, I would even give you a bandaid for your bleeding heart.

Nice, only took two replies for you to go to the Nazi reference. Pretty lazy, don't ya think ?

The only Nazi's here are the ones who tell people what they can and cannot do with their own bodies - that they cannot have abortions, they cannot marry who they love - those are the true Nazis.

And your right -- it's about control. It's about your inability to allow a person to control what happens to their own body - that you have some Higher Moral Ground by which everyone should be measured. By the way, who left it up to you? Who made you the enforcing party of Morality?

And yes, let's make it law that all - married and unmarried - be on birth control. And let's make it law that you have to show your repsonsible enough to have a child. That your responsible enough, financially and otherwise, to bring life into the world. I'm for that law - prove that responsability with classes on child rearing and basic financials. I'm all for that - that would benefit society the most, and benefit the children immensely.

So how many kids have you adopted again? And I do know women who have had abortions - ones who knew that they could not care for that child physically, emotionally or financially. That knew that they were doing the right thing by not committing a child into a system that treats them like garbarge.

And yes, it's logically consistent if I don't want unwanted animals, I'd be in favor of abortion, wouldn't I? Can you see that ? I'm sure you can't - too busy pushing your beliefs on others.....

Jake, is abortion ending a human life, yes or no?

nbtt,

No, it's not. It's a medical procedure with legally defined limits as to when and how it can be performed. I'm not calling for late term abortions - which I view as a horrible thing - nor do I call for self serve abortions in back alleys. Abortion is a medically needed procedure, period.

Jake, you contradict yourself. You say I am the Nazi when in fact you only offer one solution- The Final . You say I am pushing my beliefs onto others when in fact I have never. This blog is a forum to voice opinions and to challenge people's beliefs. You call me a Nazi, but you are the one for government control when it comes to marriage and pregnancy. (Your paragraph 2 and 4, a little Nazi don't ya think?) You say your friend had an abortion because she didn't want the child committed to a system that would treat them like garbage. Jake, the system is "abortion" and treating them like garbage is what they do to them after they have carved them out of their mother's womb. Remember the bucket Jake, don't you think that is treating them like garbage? It's treating them so much like garbage to the point that they actually physically put them IN the garbage! Jake, if you want to live under a government that controls birthing to the point that it tells you if you can or cannot, how many, and the criteria you must meet before you can have children, guess what- you can. Move to China. They would love a person with your programming, it makes their work much easier. You say abortion is not ending human life and that it is a medical procedure with legal limits. Then you have the audacity to say late term abortion is a horrible thing. If late term abortion is legal, and it is, then why does Jake have a problem with it? It falls within your legal guidelines set up for you by your government. Just curious, why is late term abortion a horrible thing for Jake? How does Jake define a late term abortion? Is it 12 weeks? 16? 25?, third trimester? Here is a person born earlier than your legal limits and lived http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2007/feb/07022003.html Jake, here is a baby at 10 weeks- http://www.babycenter.com/6_your-pregnancy-10-weeks_1099.bc
You say an abortion is a medical procedure that does not end human life. You tell me Jake- is that 10 week human? Or is it a tree? The 10 week old little guy has eyes, so he can see, all the vital organs, toes, fingers etc.. Jake at 4, yes 4 weeks gestation, the little guy's heart starts to beat. Most women don't even know they are pregnant at 4 weeks. Yes, I agree with you, abortion is a medical procedure, much like the one given to death row inmates- It ends human life. No matter what Jake thinks.

Jake~
I'm sometimes confused why people think that a child in the womb somehow doesn't exist as much... or isn't "alive all the way". The child in my womb is very much alive and has been for almost 6 months. It is in the world just as much as I am- just extra comfortable right now!

Jake- why do you feel so sorry for pregnant women as if it's somehow a curse? I'm sorry for you that your realization of the gift of life has either been lost or you just never received it.

We live in a very sick and dying society (literally)where people are always looking for a way out of reality. The debt consumes us as we cry out to our sweet sweet government for answers. All they can offer is death. Look at the times we are living in- the economy crashing, wars abroad, a government moving in on it's own people as if we were the enemy. Amdist all this and so much more, our sweet sweet president is busy making plans to kill children? To kill us- tomorrow's people?

How have we become so weak? Why are children such a burden? What is there to protect and value anymore if not our children? The answer is nothing. If we have lost every last ounce of humanity to the point where we would allow the government tell us a child is better off dead, we are completely brainwashed. I have no pity on pregnant women, knocked up, young, old, career, whatever. Women are very strong and capable beings- put on this earth for very obvious reasons. However, thanks to the CIA, the women have been empowered by evil and our men neutered by their very own pathetic attempt at life.

Jake, thought you would have got back by now. I am assuming you got the package "2nd day"? You say that abortion is not ending human life. The medical and scientific community that condone the procedure totally disagree with you. Proabortionists concede that its human they just justify killing the little guy. Jake if they that perform prebirth murder can concede its human life why cant you? Can you concede its "more or less" human life? Well we definetly know its alive because it keeps dividing and growing. And we also know that in 9 months we wont have a tree to deliver. Can you at least concede its not a tree? Jake did you know the day you were conceived, the second your fathers sperm entered your mothers egg, every single inherent thing about Jake was determined at that instant, your gender,your hair color,if you would be skinny or fat, etc... Jake you sit in front of your computer and continue to armchair quarter back how the world should be according to Jake, you blab out empty regurgitated lines like a parrot that are devoid from any real critical thinking. I challenge you to get off you duff and really, NO REALLY, research abortion, scientifically, historically, biologically and see what happens to the person being aborted, the societies that have condone it and the people that have partaken. Jake you seem like a smart guy. I know if you REALLY take the time to do this you WILL change your point of view, Jake

Sorry, I was working :)

Sit in front of my computer and armchair quarterback it? (Laughing)

I'm always going to be for freedom of choice - to have an abortion or not, to marry who you love or not, to vote for who you wish or don't vote, to speak your mind or be silent.

This is a medical procedure and until you can show me why we should force unwanted children into circumstances that will obviously be horrible for them, and create more cases of mothers who cannot care for their kids, leaving them to fend for themselves or be put into the system, until you can show me that alternative, then i will argue that abortion is a choice that is legal and needed.

Get off my duff ! I work more hours on two jobs in three days then you do all month so cast your assumptions about who and what I am somewhere else. When I post here it's to do two things - blow off some steam and remind myself -as a race, we're doomed because of the group think that seems to have prevaded our country. Some call it religion, I call it brainwashing.

I'm sorry, where do I say being pregnant is a curse? An unwanted pregnancy might be, but I don't consider pregnancy itself to be a negative.

And when you started quoting that the CIA had something to do with women's liberation, well..put it this way - I want the two minutes back I spent reading your reply.

Jake...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjNo_0cW-ek&feature=related
I am trying to show you these little guys and girls could have had life. Given the choice do you think these babies would have chose life, any life, over what they got?

Jake~
I didn't mean to put words in your mouth. Guess I just assumed you thought it to be a curse part of the time since you support abortion part of the time.

My bad... sorry about the 2 minutes. =)
Check out the links if you find the time!!

“Destroy the family, you destroy the country.” – V.I. Lenin

http://www.bolshevik.org/1917/no19fem.pdf

http://www.rense.com/general21/hw.htm

http://endofmen.wordpress.com/2007/11/08/why-feminism-is-a-fraud/

Jake, can you explain to me why you view late term abortion as a "horrible" thing and not abortion in earlier stages?

Aw, really - your going after that weak arguement -that I "support" abortion?

I support choice. I support a woman's choice to make decisions about her body. The US government has held that until a certain milestone in a pregnancy, an abortion is an available medical procedure. Past that point, it's illegal.

Again, for all you reading along at home while watching out for the CIA and the black helicopters that introduced feminism to the US, I support CHOICE. I do not support the imposition of a religious or otherwise based morality on medical procedures.

If you would choose to not end a preganancy, good for you. If you would, that's fine to. It's the mother's choice. IT IS NO ONE ELSE'S BUSINESS. Not "GOD", not the POPE not the CHURCH, not Obama's, or the 700 Club or anyone else. Period. Clear enough?

And LA, your being ignored - CIA comments make you uncredible and therefore, a waste of time.

OUCH!
Well- nice job trying to explain yourself. I must say that making the choice to murder is still murder. You support that "choice" as you like to call it.

Your government loves you, Jake!

;-)

You said it... "weak argument". You can't even back up your own comments much less engage in anything I have to say that might make you think. You said it... Why are late term abortions "horrible" in Jake's mind?? I'm just asking why you said it. Jake, do you have any comments on the material I sent you? What's the matter- won't look at it? Already made up your mind based on the "legal limits" given to you by the highest moral authority known to Jake, the government? I think you are afraid to really consider you may be wrong on this one. I don't mind debating with someone willing to discuss the material, but someone who just regurgitates trash like a parrot is not worth my time here or anyone else's. It's a good thing you got a government Jake- you need one.

nbtt-
I think he's a little busy bashing my sense of humor... you must admit it's easier to allow the gov to make the rules... no one wants any more moral authority than they have to! How many babies has this country killed?
So it looks like we're going to pay for babies to die in other countries? Can you say global agenda? People can talk all day about how "it (life) costs so much money for all the services" (that was in a pathetic breathy voice btw) but when we start paying for foreign abortions, you gotta' ask why!

The government has to pay for all those mouths to feed or pay for heath care.

Sounds like our over- swelled gov't has been mighty successful here. First off, the gov't should have never gotten SO big to the point that they takes care of people's basic needs. The Founders would be looking for another Mayflower long ago. As the saying goes, if the gov't is big enough to give you everything , it is big enough to take away everything. You'll never hear me complain about life and the preservation of it. It amazes me how some people cannot see the light of day when it comes to abortion. Do you think you are somehow superior or more worthwhile to be here and alive than an unborn child? Has anyone seen the actual pictures of the babies that are tossed into the buckets? (I have). How barbaric and disgusting AND the cruelest form of inhumanity on our planet. May God have mercy on our souls.

Here we go! We now have elected a president who wants to take our tax dollars and give it to other nations to murder with. We have governemental systems that will determine whose life is worth saving and whose life is worth destroying. A Creator who created human life does not want to see His creation so empathically destroyed. Only sinful humans would decide that that fate. Think Hitler and modern day rulers in Africa and Burma.

May God have mercy on YOUR soul, not mine. Keep your GOD out of this - that's half the issue this country has is the "RIGHTEOUS" pushing their PIOUS views down on everyone else. How about you clean about your orgy of a church, kick your head pedophile Mahoney to the cops and then worry about what people do with their bodies when a legal medical procedure is being called into question.

Creator this, Creator that. Keep it to yourself.

This has NOTHING to do with religion- this has to do with murder. You consider it "PIOUS" to be against dismembering a child?! You consider it "PIOUS" to be against sitcking a needle into a baby's head and sucking it's brains out?! You consider it "PIOUS" to be against tossing babies into buckets?! Jake- you are lost and have fallen for the lie of our society and our current culture of death of our most innocent human life- the unborn. Your mind has been sold to partaking in the mass murder of our children. Boy has the regime been successful- we don't even need a Hitler here.

Another comment...please stop pulling out the "you cannot legislate morality" or "you cannot legislate religion" card. Stealing is immoral and illegal (legislated). Murder is immoral and illegal (legislated). Drunk driving is immoral and illegal (legislated). And the killing of an unborn child is immoral and should be both illegal and legislated. This denies a human being the right to live. This country is not supposed to allow the denial to ANYONE the right to the pursuit of life, liberty and happiness. May more babies be born alive.

Jake darling,
Just because you call killing babies a "legal medical procedure" does not keep the baby from pain and torment- not to mention the MOTHER for the rest of her life. I find it interesting that you are so quick to "support a womans choice" as if you're helping her, when really her life will be forever demolished after such a "legal medical procedure". The baby actually has an advantage over the mother- the pain eventually stops... but the mother will never forget. You think you're on the mother's side--- it's the same side Jake--- no one wins. Lord have mercy.

Wow Jake, you want to cut off our freedom to speak because it is not in line with your views? We will talk about our Creator God now and forever! He will always hold a prominent place in our hearts and our thoughts. He gave all of us life, including yours. The abortion issue has passionate people on both sides. And both sides should be heard and not be silenced.(referring to Creator this, Creator that, keep it to yourself remark) In today's world abortion has become to common place. The lack of integrity towards life is sickening. As long as I have a voice and vote, I will vote life. And if I can change the liberal mind set to pro life choices, so be it. Futhermore, I don't want my tax dollars going to the propagating of killing unborn babies in this country or other any other country.

Leah is right, this is not about religion, this is murder! If this wasn't such a serious subject matter it would all blow over. I am happy to see people are still arguing for life. At least there are people out there not falling for the socialist agenda.

To the person who left two comments under two different names from the same internet provider address on a subject that is off-topic to this letter.

You may call me at the office to discuss your concerns but they can not posted here.

Aw, sorry I was away. Did you keep yourselves entertained that your Creator has some signifigance in today's society, outside of your church?

Right...

You duck out when the going gets tough and then conveniently pop back in when you think we've all left. Very typical of a man without principle.

Jake's own mother (according to Jake's opinion) had the right to choose, also. Did she made the right choice? I suppose only she knows, but many may have their opinions too. Jake and people like him are what's wrong with our country today. You and your liberal friends will loose this fight Jake. AND you will loose the gay marriage fight too. Principled, conservative minded people are ready to take back their country from the likes of you Jake. We aren't afraid of the "political correctness" anymore. Conservatives and Independents with principles and values will prevail. Choice is fine when your trying to decide what to have for dinner, but not as a solution (aka right to choice) to avoid the inconvenient results of irresponsibility and bad decision making on the part of the parents (in most cases.) Gay marriage is an abomination and will not stand. I invite everyone that reads this post to watch Glenn Beck on Fox News, listen to his radio program, or look him up online. Also, there is a great new site for principled people with values that want to take their country back. It's called the 9.12 project. God Bless America. She needs it now more than ever.

Look this up on YouTube - Thomas Paine American Revolution. Watch this guy sound off as one of our country's founding fathers! This is great stuff!

Well said Reality Checker. We need to pray that God give us wisdom and strength to answer those who have lost their sense of morality and the ability to discern right and wrong in this confusing day and age. We need the Holy Spirit to guide and and fill our mouths so that we speak in love to those that the enemy has deceived. The bible is clear that in the end times people will be confused and calling right wrong and wrong right. Those times are here and we need to teach our children about the sanctity of life, the media sure won't. God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve, and God does not intend for America to kill "pre-born" babies in the womb in our country or abroad.

Great arguments Leah &nbtt!! If abortion is just a "medical procedure why does the government have to pay for it? The government doesn't pay for my pap or mammogram or for my surgeries.
Second, what about a father's rights! Once there is conception that child is as much his as the mother's. We found a man guilty of TWO counts of murder when he killed his wife and "unborn child". Not saying it was right, but if a child isn't a human until it's born then he should have only been guilty of one murder, Right Jake! It was his child after all to do with as he CHOSE. Maybe he didn't think he could care for that child, and thought it would just end up in the system!! As my Mama said "what's good for the goose is good for the gander". Maybe father's can be given the right to hog tie their wives, girlfriends, etc and take them in to abort a child they don't want. Look where we are headed in this.
I am a woman, and almost aborted my second child, and though I didn't I still live with the guilt that I had thought about it. The father would have probably been happy if I had.
GMD, God has blessed this country and look what we have done with it, and allowed to happen. "I'm afraid God won't bless us until or unless we get "the sin out of the camp"

Thank you Reality Checker, GMD and Gina- keep fighting the good fight! Gina- I am so glad you made the decision you did to keep your 2nd child-what a wonderful blessing!! Never feel one iota guilty that you had those thoughts- if more women were honest, I believe there are many of us! What matters is that you preserved your child's right to live as all women should do. My mother was advised to abort me when she was 16. She did not and I am so grateful to her and God's loving grace to live my life! Thank you!

Sorry, but something is wrong when you say it's ok to destroy life like a baby in the womb for no reason,but it's wrong for a. person who has done wrong and should be terminated.for like killing a child, a women or the elderly, cause of stupidity and you know what i mean.

Go Gina!
I hope today finds you well.
geezteas.biz

My grandmothers sister died from an abortion long before it was legal, she was married to an abusive husband who believed she was pregnant, and after the botched abortion refused to get help for her, she died from a blood infection, leaving four children motherless.I am pro-choice, I am also a nurse who has assisted, and have never seen any body parts in a first trimester abortion ever.