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Elizabeth Kellenbarger Amirian, better known in the Temecula music community as Bipsy.
Elizabeth Kellenbarger Amirian, better known in the Temecula music community as Bipsy.
Mickey David Beauchamp Wagstaff was arrested by officers who witness the attack.
Mickey David Beauchamp Wagstaff was arrested by officers who witness the attack.

Temecula singer-songwriter Bipsy killed


Friday, February 20th, 2009
Issue 08, Volume 13.
Peter Surowski
Valley News Staff


Author’s note: Much of the information in this article came from a Valley News interview conducted in 2007. Some of the information came from numerous informal conversations that took place between the author and the deceased between 1999 and 2008.

Last Thursday, one of Temecula’s most brilliant artistic minds was murdered.

Her name was Elizabeth Kellenbarger Amirian, but those who knew her called her Bipsy.

According to police reports, she was stabbed to death in a minivan on the third floor of The Promenade mall’s parking structure by Pala resident Mickey David Beauchamp Wagstaff.

Wagstaff was Bipsy’s fiancé. The motivations for the murder are still unknown.

According to police officials, an officer witnessed the murder while patrolling the parking structure.

When the officer ordered Wagstaff out of the vehicle, he refused. So police broke in the back window of the van and used a taser to knock Wagstaff out. The police then arrested him.

Bipsy died at the scene.

"I am still so shocked," said Janet Gorman, a concertgoer and friend since high school choir. "She only spoke about how happy she was with [Wagstaff]. She lit up when speaking of him. She spoke of him as being a wonderful man."

Her music

Fans knew Bipsy for her graceful virtuosity on the piano, her airy, angelic voice and thoughtful lyrics.

On any given weekend, Bipsy – who got her nickname from a nanny when she was a child – could be found playing open mic nights at various coffee shops from Temecula to Escondido.

Tori Amos and Kate Price inspired her playing, she said, and it showed.

Most of her songs were somber but crystalline and graceful, like someone might hear in a dream. Her songs were in minor keys and accompanied only by her voice.

Much of her music conveyed her deep, unconventional kind of spirituality.

Bipsy was a Christian but a great admirer of Jewish culture.

This shows in her song "Hatikvah," Israel’s national anthem, and in "Feast of Tabernacles," which Bipsy wrote after reading the Book of Nehemiah for the first time.

She had been recording a full-length album bit by bit for more than three years. The album was to be titled "BattleCry."

Bipsy posted a blog on Jan. 13 saying she was in the production stage of the album and would finally release it this month.

"Can you sense my excitement as i type, can you feel it!!! [sic]," she wrote.

She wrote and produced the album herself, she said during conversations last year, and planned to sell it at her live performances.

In an interview in July 2007, she said the years during which she wrote the album – 2005 to 2007 – were the most difficult of her life.

Plans for a tour, which she had put together herself, had fallen apart. For most of that time she had worked two jobs. And during that period, her marriage had ended in a divorce.

Writing music helped her get through it, she said, and it was the only constant in her chaotic life.

Her life

Bipsy grew up in the back of an art studio. Her father, Acop "Jack" Amirian, ran a Advertisement
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framing business in North Carolina in addition to selling his paintings of Civil War scenes.

"That had a huge impact on my life," Bipsy said in 2007.

The family’s home was attached to Acop’s art studio, so Bipsy was constantly surrounded in her father’s work.

"I grew up around art. I loved watching my father paint his battle scenes," she said. "When I couldn’t sleep at night, I would come and watch him paint, because he’d paint all night."

Despite living in an environment alive with creativity, Bipsy’s home life was repressive and stifled.

She blamed her father for this, saying he was abusive and controlling.

"[The Amirian children] didn’t really have a normal life," she said. "We weren’t allowed to really do anything outside of home. We couldn’t do anything extracurricular; we weren’t allowed to have friends outside of school. We couldn’t go to people’s houses or anything like that… My mom couldn’t leave the house, talk on the phone, have any friends or get her driver’s license."

This "isolated existence" is part of the reason Bipsy got so good at playing the piano, she said.

"I didn’t have the normal diversions of childhood," she said.

For some reason, playing the piano came naturally to Bipsy. In 2007, she talked about the first time she ever touched a piano.

"I went with my dad to a Radio Shack and there was a keyboard. I started playing and a big crowd gathered around me because I was playing songs I had heard on the radio," she recalled.

After that day, she was in love with the idea of playing the piano. She begged her father for piano lessons, but he refused.

"It wasn’t because we couldn’t afford it," Bipsy said. "I think it was just because of his whole mentality that children weren’t meant to be heard and women shouldn’t be out in public."

Then Bipsy remembered her mother had an old broken keyboard tucked away in a dusty corner of their home. So she got it out and, trying to repair it, gave herself an electrical shock.

"That’s how desperate I was [to play it]," she said.

Bipsy spent her life perfecting her already prodigious piano playing skill so she might do justice to the God to which she dedicated her life.

"If only i had the talent to fully give Him the praise He is due," Bipsy wrote in a blog on her MySpace page. "At least i will have eternity to play and sing more skillfully when he returns [sic]."

Her music is still online at www.myspace.com/beatnikbipsy.

In addition, several videos of her performances are available on Youtube.com by typing "Bipsy" in the search bar.

A memorial service for Bipsy will take place at 4 p.m. on Feb. 20 at Community Church of the Valley at 27570 Commerce Center Dr. in Temecula. For more information, call the church at (951) 676-3007.

The pastor has asked attendees to make a donation to the church rather than buy flowers, which he said will go to funding Bethel Mission in India.

To comment on this article online, visit www.myvalleynews.


 

66 comments

Comment Profile ImageKim B
Comment #1 | Saturday, Feb 21, 2009 at 10:53 am
Her memorial service was an amazing tribute to our Lord Jesus. She was an amazing child of God and will always be remembered for that. I pray that her music will live on and inspire people as it inspires me to live more for Christ.
Kim B.
Comment Profile Imagewtf!?
Comment #2 | Saturday, Feb 21, 2009 at 10:53 am
im frm pala lived here my whole life of 27 years never ever seen this guy before
Comment Profile ImageKara
Comment #3 | Saturday, Feb 21, 2009 at 7:17 pm
Bipsy was and is the most unique and amazing person i've ever had the chance to know. i will miss her everyday forever.
Comment Profile ImageBB
Comment #4 | Monday, Feb 23, 2009 at 12:39 pm
religion was what this murder was all about. i wish people would open their eyes and quite being so blind.
Comment Profile Imagejason
Comment #5 | Monday, Feb 23, 2009 at 12:39 pm
i went to bible college with her about 8 years ago... it just doesnt make sense to me...
Comment Profile ImageHelen Amirian
Comment #6 | Tuesday, Feb 24, 2009 at 8:11 pm
Bipsy IS my little sister. She was always cooler than me and made sure I knew it. i will never stop getting to know her.
Comment Profile ImageCaressa
Comment #7 | Thursday, Feb 26, 2009 at 7:56 pm
i knew her as well as i could. my brother was her brother dorm at TBI. she use to come over to our house and spend hours with my mom and doing her clothes... we had the funnest time when we all went to astroworld. then the next year i was 1st year and didnt talk to her much but she was stil in contact with my mom. my mom was truly heart broken about this. i dont understand how you can be so close to someone and not realize that they have this WHOLE other side to them. (her fiance) you will be missed dearly my love. see you when i get there. hold a spot for me in that AWESOME choir!
Comment Profile Imagekn
Comment #8 | Friday, Feb 27, 2009 at 10:07 am
There's two sides to every story. NO ONE knows what made Mickey snap. He was very much in love with Bipsy. It's a sad story because both families lost loved ones. All we can do is pray for the loved ones of this tragic occurance.
Comment Profile ImageGeri
Comment #9 | Saturday, Feb 28, 2009 at 9:41 am
I personally could never harm someone I love and especially to do what he did is insane. My daughter was good friends with Bipsy and her heart is broken along with everyone else who knew and loved her. There are two sides but one side is alive and one was taken from us.
Comment Profile ImageHelen Amirian
Comment #10 | Saturday, Feb 28, 2009 at 9:42 am
You know, that's infuriating. my mother reads these. Yes, there ARE two sides to every story, but in THIS case, one side is DEAD, isn't she? Mickey Wagstaff murdered my sister, was caught red-handed stabbing her, so I really don't care to hear his side. But, wow, wouldn't it be so enlightening to hear how she deserved to be kidnapped in her own van, tied up, raped, and stabbed like, a hundred times? Maybe we can all LEARN something!
Comment Profile ImageSusan Unwin
Comment #11 | Tuesday, Mar 3, 2009 at 4:32 pm
I knew Bipsy and loved her and her music.
My son was the best man when she married Dax. I also videotaped their wedding. They were to my house a few times. Bipsy played and sang at our holiday party a few years ago and she mesmerized everyone. She was a kindred spirit. Her music was so beautiful and haunting. She was awesome and I am so heartbrokern over this I can barely breathe. I can only imagine how her family is feeling. I pray for all of you so much. My husband felt the same way about her and he also is very upset. She touched our hearts in a way very few people can. I am sorry people enter hurtful things. You need to listen only to the good. No matter what, Bipsy did NOT deserve this!!
Helen, please let your Mom read this one.
I emailed Isaac and told him how we feel.
I don't have an address to send you a card. So, know that there are people out there that loved her and we are thinking of you and feeling your pain.
All our Love and sympathy, John and Sue
Comment Profile ImageIsaac
Comment #12 | Tuesday, Mar 3, 2009 at 7:56 pm
"Two sides to every story?" Bipsy was stabbed in the back, repeatedly, and did not even see it coming. When someone rapes AND kills, I think we already know his side of the story and his motivation.

And BB, religion was not the reason for someone being raped and killed. Get a clue or don't talk about things you know absolutely nothing about. This guy broke about 25 different Bible rules. It's really sickening how certain members of the anti-religious crowd think that people should not live by God's rules and are nothing more than evolved animals, then when a person acts like an animal and disobeys the Bible, they think they can blame "religion" somehow. If he had been any kind of Christian, this simply wouldn't have happened.
Comment Profile ImageConcerned
Comment #13 | Tuesday, Mar 3, 2009 at 10:16 pm
Isaac, May God bless you my friend and comfort your family during this time. You do know that any capital murder case in the State of California always has to have a trial according to state law. So, we will all have to endure going through this and re-living this event. Stay strong and focused on our Lord for he is great and merciful to those who trust in Him! I hope you know who this is and that you didn't lose my number. Brotherly love to you and yours! K-
Comment Profile ImageEllie
Comment #14 | Thursday, Mar 5, 2009 at 12:16 pm
Issac, I knew Bips from TBI (she was one of the two that I could always be found with, Gina being the other), she spoke of you fondly.

At the beginning of January I contacted her about some music, she graciously allowed me the rights to use "Beautiful" on my photography website, I am so grateful to have a part of her. I am heartbroken at what happened, your family is fervently in my prayers. Jehovah will carry you through this.

I partially agree with the commenter that blamed religion. Religion has the whole world screwed up. It is only a deep seeded relationship with our savior that can and will save you.
Comment Profile ImageIsaac
Comment #15 | Saturday, Mar 7, 2009 at 8:34 pm
Good point Ellie. Religion can potentially be terrible. It can be used to exalt oneself and make a person arrogant and encourage them to look down on the less "holy" who don't follow their religoin's dictates. A real Christian knows that he or she is lost and wicked without the Savior and lives a life based on grace and celebration of God's forgiveness that leads to real love. If the killer knew Jesus he could have loved my sister and let her leave him without snapping and killing her because of his lust.
Comment Profile ImageMelissa
Comment #16 | Tuesday, Mar 10, 2009 at 4:53 pm
I grew up in the same town with the Amirians. Melody and I are so saddened and shocked by this news. Bipsy was always an exceptional person...but Helen don't underestimate your coolness! I'm sorry for your loss.
Comment Profile ImageBronte
Comment #17 | Tuesday, Mar 10, 2009 at 5:59 pm
I loved Bipsy. She went to my church and sang and blessed us with her music. I miss her so much. B-Age 14
Comment Profile ImageWow
Comment #18 | Friday, Mar 13, 2009 at 4:25 pm
This is a sad story. He must have been on drugs, or else was a horrible person. I'm thinking the former. Either way, it is totally his fault so don't even think about his side of the story.
Comment Profile ImagePeter
Comment #19 | Saturday, Mar 14, 2009 at 9:29 am
Bipsy is a friend of a friend. She inspires me to live a more set apart life to Yeshua.

“YHWH bless you and guard you; YHWH make His face shine upon you, and show favour to you; YHWH lift up His face upon you, and give you peace.”
(Num 6:24-26)
Comment Profile ImageBB
Comment #20 | Monday, Mar 23, 2009 at 12:55 pm
Isaac. I am not from the anti religion crowd, I am just sick of kids not being able to make their own choices because of their parents beliefs. When god and religion are shoved down your throats everyday and you are able to make your take responcability for your own actions because you put everything in gods hands we have a problem. Grow up Isaac, Im not saying religion is the reason she was raped and killed. It is the reason he and kids like him are confused.
Comment Profile ImageSuzie
Comment #21 | Monday, Mar 23, 2009 at 12:55 pm
I remember Bipsy from New Covenant Fellowship. What a beautiful young lady she was. My husband enjoyed talking to her about Armenian things because he was also Armenian things. I just found out yesterday that it was Bipsy. My heart is so sad for her family. My condolences go out to you, her family. She is now in heaven with our Father. Rest in Peace sweet Bipsy.
Comment Profile Imagepg
Comment #22 | Wednesday, Apr 1, 2009 at 3:09 pm
i knew them both and i would have never thought mickey could do that. i wish we could have some answers, he actually was telling me how he weas going to propose to her and how much in love he was. i just cant wrap my head around this.
Comment Profile ImageHelen Amirian
Comment #23 | Tuesday, Apr 7, 2009 at 10:56 pm
Thanks everybody...I feel like so many people are trying to get in touch with me as though by knowing me they will get a part of Bipsy back. Well know that we are nothing alike. And that I get your good intentions but I dont have a lot of emotion to spare for anyone at this time. If you would like to share with me about her...that would actually help me more. Those hardest years for her were years I barely saw my sister. And it is hitting me very hard that I dont HAVE a sister anymore. My brothers still do...but I am no Bipsy. I am not even a Christian. And no...this has not scared me back into believing. I was scared out of believing ten years ago. If you want to help this hurting world lets work on eliminating the selfishness that perpetuates acts like these...the real reason true love is disappearing.
Comment Profile Imagetemecula resident
Comment #24 | Thursday, Apr 9, 2009 at 1:16 am
Mickey will have to answer to GOD all almighty someday. I hope someone in prison does him in like what happened to the great Jeffrey Dalmer, kill the SOB. I am tired of my tax dollars paying for these dead beats. May his deceased girlfriend rest in peace.
Comment Profile Imageeric henry
Comment #25 | Tuesday, Apr 14, 2009 at 11:16 pm
bipsy was truely a gifted girl when i knew her and i only wish i'd have kept in touch.isaac and helen thanx for being so kind to me and letting me be all awkward around you all.i still remember when we were all wilder and in many ways more innocent.i only hope you guys still remember me.i still have an old poem written by bipsy if you guys would like to have it.www.myspace.com/mmisfitx .id love to hear from you guys.
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Comment Profile Imageeric henry
Comment #26 | Tuesday, Apr 14, 2009 at 11:17 pm
bipsy was truely a gifted girl when i knew her and i only wish i'd have kept in touch.isaac and helen thanx for being so kind to me and letting me be all awkward around you all.i still remember when we were all wilder and in many ways more innocent.i only hope you guys still remember me.i still have an old poem written by bipsy if you guys would like to have it.myspace.com/mmisfitx .id love to hear from you guys,sorry for the repeat
Comment Profile ImageIsaac
Comment #27 | Thursday, Jun 11, 2009 at 10:41 am
By the way, since some of you who knew Bipsy from years back seem to be reading this...it's cool to hear from you. Bipsy's life completely changed when she became a Christ-follower. She quit drugs, getting drunk, being depressed, etc. and started making a huge difference in the world. Her music is just one small piece of it. Her idea of a good weekend was to round up toys and drive to TJ and give them to kids...she lived more in her short life than most people do in a hundred years.

Some of you wouldn't even recognize Bipsy if you saw her in her last years...she just glowed. She was never shy about telling her story, you can read it today on her myspace.
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Comment Profile ImageIsaac
Comment #28 | Thursday, Jun 11, 2009 at 10:42 am
BB, you are still not making any logical sense. Ranting or telling people to "grow up" doesn't count for anything I'm afraid. And you should show some respect in this situation. If my sister hadn't been "confused" by faith in Christ, she wouldn't have lived past the age of 15. I speak as someone who actually knows the people involved.

Whatever your strong opinions are about religion, you should be wise enough to know not to jam your opinions into the middle of conversations about people whom you don't know. It's rude.
Comment Profile ImageABrown
Comment #29 | Sunday, Aug 9, 2009 at 6:39 pm
mickey was such a breath of fresh air, i dont get what happened... i have no hate or judgement for him, merely sympathy. nobody should be able to judge him for you were not there. only to good Lord should know what has happened. My condolences to Elizabeth and her family. I am sorry for your loss. still no reason to hate.
Comment Profile Images.
Comment #30 | Sunday, Sep 27, 2009 at 8:46 pm
ABrown, there were witnesses and a confession. Be thankful that the "judgement" of society separates you and your family from a few of the sick, evil people in the world--Mickey included.

"What happened" was that Wagstaff raped and murdered Bipsy. I wouldn't normally bother responding to such simple-minded nonsense but calling him a "breath of fresh air" is just too much.
Comment Profile ImageHelen Amirian
Comment #31 | Monday, Oct 5, 2009 at 4:36 pm
Yes, only the Lord knows what happened that day...the Lord and the sherrif that caught Mickey red-handed, (literally,) stabbing her repeatedly, in broad daylight, in public, in the back of her own van...where she was tied up, having been kidnapped days earlier...there could be any number of secenarios. What planet did you grow up on, ABrown?
Comment Profile ImageCassandra Mills
Comment #32 | Saturday, Oct 17, 2009 at 7:53 am
To the Amirian family: I cannot think of the words that would provide the comfort I wish I could give you. I am sorry for the pain you have felt, and I have pain of my own. I went to Chaparral High School with Bipsy and I saw her a couple of times since we graduated. We both performed in the talent show, and I will never forget her. She always had an outpouring of the Holy Spirit, and she was one of the few people in my life who had a positive effect in my Christian walk. I remember that I wanted to be more like her. She had a sincere love for the Lord, for everyone else, and she had the confidence to express it. The peace that Nikki had that Bipsy desired, was the same peace that I noticed in Bipsy in high school, and desired for myself. Nikki had the same effect on Bipsy that Bipsy had on me. I am so grateful that I had a chance to know her. I want you to know that she was one of the major influences in my life that help to get me saved and to strengthen my relationship with the Lord. I will never forget her. Love, Cassandra.
Comment Profile ImageCurtis Allen
Comment #33 | Thursday, Jan 14, 2010 at 10:15 am
I knew bipsy from TBI she was a true insperation, and if im able to influince half of the number of people she influinced in her life ,in mine. it will be a blessing. let us all seze the moment and make the most of life just like she would want us to. ps sorry this is so late i just learned about this
Comment Profile ImageAnonymous
Comment #34 | Thursday, Apr 1, 2010 at 1:26 pm
I grew up with Mickey around my house every day. I thought i knew him inside and out. I was wrong. About a week before the murder i listened to both Mickey and Bipsy sing at a church, they seemed so happy. It was a shock to everyone to hear what had happened. My family still talkes to Mickey every now and then. He is in jail preaching the bible. He claims to have been possessed and does not remeber a thing about that day. I do not know what to believe, however i do know that he had controll over what he did and he will get what he desreves in Heaven.
Comment Profile ImageHelen Amirian
Comment #35 | Wednesday, Apr 21, 2010 at 1:31 pm
Christians don't get possessed. He was still, apparently, able to drive for several days with my sister tied up in the back of the van.

He's allowed to talk to people? He hasn't even had the nerve to stand trial yet. What utter bullcrap! I bet he wonders why poor little him wound up in jail, the little lamb.

Not only do I not understand the entitled mentality of these spoiled little white men, but to add insult to injury, there's the people who sympathize with rapists, torturers, and murderers, even claiming to believe these people are Christians? God help us all.
Comment Profile ImageReach out to God, have eternal hope
Comment #36 | Sunday, Jul 11, 2010 at 5:05 pm
This is the saddest story, Lord please help and heal Bipsy's family. Not even time can wipe out this kind of grief and loss, only an eternal God can help. However, as I know the ONE TRUE GOD, the Jewish Messiah of the world. He loved her so much to save her out of a world of destruction and now she is with Him forever and ever. I do believe Bipsy would want her family to go on and reach out to her God and Saviour that you would have the love and peace she had, plus, the fact that you would all be together again one day forever! There is only hope in a dark and dying world when you know Yeshua the Messiah!
Lots of love, hugs and Shalom to you all.
Comment Profile ImageAnna denniston
Comment #37 | Sunday, Jul 25, 2010 at 9:13 am
I was bipsy's roommate in college and I can't stop thinking about her I still can't even erase her cell phone numbers from my phone... I miss her so much and think about her all the time. And I was reading some of the comments about Mickey saying he was a nice guy and a breath of fresh air How dare you say something like that on here when he out right murdered one of the most amazingly beautiful woman of God! It just. Makes me sick how ignorant people can be... May God be with the Family of Bipsy hugs! I love you bipsy----- your number one fan always!
Comment Profile ImageDanny McClanahan
Comment #38 | Thursday, Aug 12, 2010 at 3:54 pm
I was Bipsy's friend for a long time. She was friends with my stepbrother years ago when I lived in fallbrook, and back in 2005 before I went to rehab I frequented "His Place Coffee House" where she worked. She gave me rides to church sometimes and helped give encouraging words to me while I was battling my demons. Her being gone left a hole in my heart, she was very special to me. I'm glad to be able to see her one day in heaven. I think we should pray for Mickey and his salvation, no matter how much hate exists towards him. There's nothing in this world that the blood of Christ does not cover. If anyone hates me for writing this, I'm okay with that. That man needs prayer, and none of us deserve salvation, Jesus freely gave it. It's not up to us who receives it and who doesn't. If you can stomach it, pray for him.
Comment Profile ImageAnna Hill
Comment #39 | Wednesday, Jun 15, 2011 at 2:01 pm
I have been thinking about Bipsy a lot lately. I have wondered what the courts have done, if anything. Does anyone know what is going on?

I went to Texas Bible Institute with Bipsy, she lived across the hall from me. She was such a loving and happy lady. I looked up to her because she was so confident and she had awesome style.

To Bipsy's family, I pray for you often.
Comment Profile Imagefreind
Comment #40 | Wednesday, Aug 24, 2011 at 5:56 pm
I'm sorry but I've spent time with. mickey having bible study with him this year everyday in jail. He is so refreshing we took turns leading bible study . I'm deeply sadened 4 your loss . I m sorry about both famalies loses .
Comment Profile ImageJohn Robert
Comment #41 | Wednesday, Nov 16, 2011 at 3:21 pm
#34:
If Mickey did kill Bipsy, and the evidence shows overwhelmingly that he did, he will not make it to heaven under ANY circumstance. God has reserved another place for killers - HELL.
This is where killers go. NOT heaven.
Comment Profile ImageJenny C
Comment #42 | Sunday, Dec 4, 2011 at 1:34 pm
This case shows that Satan is alive and well and was at least for a few moments in time-in Mickey. So sorry for both families but the Bible does say that all have fallen short of the glory of God and yes, there is forgiveness through Christ for even murderers but Mickey must ask for forgiveness, repent and can be saved. Let's pray for even his salvation--as true followers of Christ. Yes, there were two lives lost during this tragedy. Hopefully, one more will come to truly accept Christ as his savior. Elizabeth is surely in Heaven today. It was only about the evil that is always trying to undo Christ's followers--that was the religious connection. Rest in Peace Bipsy. May both families find the peace that only God can give you after this loss.
Comment Profile ImageC Lee
Comment #43 | Friday, Sep 7, 2012 at 8:31 pm
Anna: The dirt bag was sentenced to life without parole, but he should have received the death penalty, Thanks California for not having a backbone...

Had the the deputy who found her van responded properly that turd would have gotten the justice he deserved and quite possibly saved Bipsy's life. In saying that, I'm not blaming the deputy at least he was vigilant enough to have the opportunity to end the violence.

I was living in fallbrook @ the time that I had heard this story on the news, of the girl murdered at the local mall , it wasn't until today that I realized I had known her from TBI. I remember Bipsy coming down to the horse stables to visit with her friend Gina. She was always kind to everyone. It's sad to see someone's life end so abruptly. My prayers go out to her family, I know they must still feel the pain of her absence, but hope that they know she is in a better place with no more suffering.
Comment Profile ImageInTexaswoman
Comment #44 | Saturday, Sep 8, 2012 at 10:30 pm
To Helen Amirian
Please express to your family that there are complete strangers out in the world whose hearts ache for all of you though not thru murder. I have had to bury my child and that is a kind of pain I wish upon no one.My daughter died of SIDS and thou an autopsy showed her blood had the appropriate levels of oxygen and there wasnt a bruise on her body there were people that still made cruel comments about how I must have done something...My life ground to a halt that day. In 2010 that found SIDS babies like mine lacked a vital chemical in their brain but people that dont know me or the truth we always have gossip if THEY choose it. You cant fix that kind of stupid.
Comment Profile ImageM
Comment #45 | Sunday, Sep 9, 2012 at 7:12 am
Isaac, he wasn't a "real Christian"? That is a logical fallacy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman).

Western civilization's rules are far superior to "God's rules". The Bible does not prohibit slavery, rape (unless the woman is another man's property...yes, rape is a property crime according to the Bible), genocide, or pedophilia. Murder was prohibited long before the Bible was ever written and there is archaeological evidence that attests to this fact. The truth of the matter is that the Bible is a very poor moral guide and Christians do not get their morality from the Bible. Christians get their morality from their family/culture/society/etc, just like every other human that has ever existed.
Comment Profile ImageSamantha
Comment #46 | Sunday, Sep 9, 2012 at 8:27 am
To Isaac and Helen Amirian,
I'm so sorry for your loss. My prayers go out to both you and your family. Even though I never got a chance to meet Bipsy, it feels like we would have been really good friends.
God Bless,

Sammy
Comment Profile ImageJulie
Comment #47 | Sunday, Sep 9, 2012 at 9:41 am
M,
I want to respond to your comment, but it is going to take me a little while. Please check back for comment later today if you can.
thanks
Comment Profile ImageLyhong Hillard
Comment #48 | Sunday, Sep 9, 2012 at 1:22 pm
Make NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT, IT IS THE devil, THE evil one, WHO COMES TO KILL , STEAL AND DESTROY and with that being said; I am deeply saddened at the young life (Bipsy) that fell prey into the hands of a THIEF and KILLER. Bipsy was to definitely be a "voice" in a world of darkness for so many young girls who believed that Jesus Christ had given up on them. It is my prayer and hope that Christ Jesus will continue to comfort Bipsy's family and give them a "peace" that only he can give.
Comment Profile ImageTo the Amirian family, im so sorry for your loss, I just seen yo
Comment #49 | Sunday, Sep 9, 2012 at 5:10 pm
To the Amirian family, im so sorry for your loss, I just seen your sisters story on the ID channel, wow this story touched my heart, its unfournate that you had to loose this beautiful person in your lives, and what a shameless act from a man that claimed he loved her, and how he broke every commandment claiming to be a christian man in the bible, im so sorry again for your loss i listened to some of her music and she was really talented as well as a free spirit , may she sing with the angels now , and may mickey get his just desserts in h... thats my opinion, .... May you all as family members and friends cherish your memories of her, sincerely Lana A
Comment Profile ImageOlga
Comment #50 | Thursday, Sep 13, 2012 at 10:47 pm
Wow. I watched a show this past weekend I can't remember the exact name but it was Bipsys story and how she was murdered(happily never after ) think that was the shows name. Any how I was deeply saddened by her death. I did not know her but for some reason it bothers me how her life was ended in such a brutal way. I am truly sorry for your loss .bipsy seemed to be a wonderful person I wish I would of had a chance to meet her.
Two sides to a story? Excuse me idiot! But who cares what his side of the story is? He killed bipsy! It doesn't matter what he has to say nothing can justify his actions!!! Your am idiot!
Comment Profile ImageRose65
Comment #51 | Saturday, Oct 27, 2012 at 7:49 pm
I watched the show too and to Helen and her family, please don't read about these people sympathizing with Mickey.. it is not doing you any good. The reportings of this wacko in jail preaching the bible after what he did is sickening and it's deplorable that people would grant him the time of day to do so after what he did. As far as I can see.. his construct shows a deeply disturbed rapist slash killer. Sociopathic deeply disturbed individual.. and those who know what he did and listen to him in jail in bible study...or otherwise.. it's really sick.
Comment Profile ImageSerena
Comment #52 | Sunday, Oct 28, 2012 at 12:55 pm
I think that Mickey should rot in that jail cell like he made her feel contained.... So what if she wanted to leave him!!! HELLO PEOPLE LEAVE PEOPLE EVERYDAY!!!! Its a sad situation and I think that Karma will prevail on him.... May he have a slow and agonizing death....
Comment Continued : The comment above was written from the same location.
Post Continued
Comment Profile ImageSerena
Comment #53 | Sunday, Oct 28, 2012 at 1:00 pm
Please dont have pity or sorrow for Mickey.... He didnt have pity of feel sorrow for Bipsy..... I think that he got what he deserved....
Comment Profile ImageRosa
Comment #54 | Wednesday, Jan 30, 2013 at 10:07 am
I watched the show and its sooo sad what happened to this sweet girl.This lunatic,Mickey,Im not surewhat religion he was into but it had nothing to do with GOD,more like a devil worshipper!!!!!He had some screws loose up in his head
Comment Profile Imagecheryl plato
Comment #55 | Thursday, Jan 31, 2013 at 12:01 am
This is Bipsy's mom. Four years have gone by, and i miss her more each day. I will never get over the pain and hurt, i just want to hold and hug and talk to her some more. We asked for the death penalty but the DA decided against our wishes, he'd have plea bargained and got life w/out parole, so instead we had to go to trial, where he did receive life w/out parole. We forgave him because as Christians we have to, but want him to never leave prison. He destroyed our lives forever. Mickey was no christian, he had strange beliefs and actions and Bipsy had finally realized this and was going to break up with him. We do pray for his salvation. Thank all of you who prayed for us and gave us kindness.
Comment Profile ImageBrad
Comment #56 | Saturday, Feb 2, 2013 at 10:23 am
The other day, I watched the story of Bipsy on Discovery Channel's ID show. Bottom line, broke my heart on how the whole thing transpired that led to her murder. But the things going on here in this fallen world reminds me to think about Eternity and each of us to think about the sacrifice of Christ on the Cross did for us if we accept the gift. The question is where do you want to spend Eternity ? There are two choices of where each of us will be in 500 years ! Accept the Blood of Jesus and the sacrifice on the Cross and spend Eternity in Heaven with Him or reject Christ's sacrifice and spend it in the lake of fire, darkness and very alone. There can be no sitting on the fence on this one.

On religion, it can be so superficial and can sometimes keep us from accepting the Gift especially with the condescension. Thinking of Matthew 7:21-23. It should be about Relationship with Christ, not religion. This also points to non-traditional churches and why they are growing while the established denominational churches are dying. I have gone to both and I lean towards the non-traditional churches since the people that attend are genuine and broken and many are from different walks of life like bikers, skateboarders, divorcees and drug addicts. Personally I am turned off by religion and those who are as well should seek a non-traditional church instead of a traditional church. Regardless, all of us have to account on whether we accepted Christ or rejected Him one day !
Comment Profile ImageReason
Comment #57 | Thursday, Mar 7, 2013 at 3:11 pm
No, religion is not to blame for this horrendous crime. Mickey is certainly the culprit and he will spend the rest of his life behind bars. Be that as it may, religion is not to blame, but it certainly did not help. And for you Christians, if you objectively review the history of Christianity you would clearly see that it is BY FAR the most violent, cult-like religion in the history of humankind. It is and always has been about control and submission. WAKE UP!
Comment Profile Imagejackleg
Comment #58 | Sunday, Mar 17, 2013 at 5:54 pm
The TV show never said anything about her being divorced before. Changes the story a lot for me. Not that she deserved what happened or anything... I dunno, just seems weird they left that bit out with all the talking about finding a husband and daddy issues, etc.
Comment Profile ImageRitchiw
Comment #59 | Sunday, Mar 31, 2013 at 10:07 pm
Helen, I want to tell you what a beautiful soul you are - you have shared so much on this little forum alone. And surely you would make your sister proud every day.
Comment Profile ImageJanet
Comment #60 | Thursday, May 30, 2013 at 5:54 am
I watched the story on ID with my daughter--I can't get Bipsy out of my head her music has touched my heart and I am so saddened that she is gone. Please listen to her music or buy her CD BattleCry. I Love the songs on it her voice is haunting and magical. I am so sorry for her family and those that knew her.
Comment Profile ImageSteve Watson
Comment #61 | Saturday, Jun 1, 2013 at 7:09 pm
The negative comments about Christianity are certainly the norm for those who want an excuse to reject the call of Christ upon their lives. Jesus Himself voluntarily gave up His life when He could have called legions of angels to defend Himself. Christianity (following the teachings of Jesus and seeking His forgiveness for our own sinful nature) calls us to love one another. The Bible also clearly states that Jesus is our example. We are called to a life of holiness based upon the power of God to change our lives--my life. No one can use the failure of others to ignore the fact that we as individuals must make a decision to either seek forgiveness from our sins and follow Him or reject Him for eternity. Bipsy's mother has stated so clearly that we must forgive (if we are to be forgiven by God). Only with the power of God could that lady and her family forgive Wagstaff.

It is not our call whether or not Wagstaff has sought forgiveness for what he did. The Bible is clear that all have sinned but also all can be saved. The reality of Wagstaff's supposed transformation would necessitate his understanding and accepting the utter horror and evil that he committed. While he could be saved, I personally believe there is no forgiveness until we as people truly accept and "own" our own sin. If Wagstaff does that, his attitude and his expression of horror, grief and sadness over his actions would be obvious to all. I do not sense any of that in anything that I have read about his actions. The fact that he is now supposedly preaching in prison also means nothing because many people have fraudulently cloaked themselves in Christianity over the centuries. Wagstaff will face the judgement bar of God.

For the Amirian family, may God truly bless and keep you and give you His peace, the peace that passes all understand and be gracious unto you. Your pain is beyond comprehension. I pray you will gain solace in trusting and following Him.
Comment Profile ImageJill Wojcik
Comment #62 | Saturday, Jun 29, 2013 at 4:01 pm
RE: jackleg comment #58. What difference does it make that Bipsy had been married once before? I do believe it was mentioned in ID Channel's Bipsy story, "Happily Never After." That should not make her, or her tragic slaughter, less important! Bipsy was trying to break away from Mickey. That is when he flipped out and made the choice that he did, which was beyond disturbing and unnecessary! Your comment about "daddy issues", pathetic! You don't know the whole story of what Bipsy, her mother, and siblings went through. I do. I am a family friend. Bipsy and her mother, Cheryl, who were/are very close, and Bipsy's loved ones, are some of the kindest people I know. I am a survivor of violent crimes. Too bad you choose to be judgmental!
Comment Profile ImageIsaac
Comment #63 | Tuesday, Jul 2, 2013 at 5:56 pm
M,

I understand why you would believe those things about Christianity and the Bible, living, as we do, in the low-information age.

I cannot educate you about where value systems come from (they don't just magically come "from friends and family" as if morality exists in a vacuum and is the same for all cultures). But I would advise you to at least gain a good, rudimentary understanding of where the current, Western values we hold come from. Values like equality of the sexes, tolerance, the value of human life, and charity are derived from the Christian worldview and the Bible.

As the atheist logician Bertrand Russell explains it for you:
"Infanticide [killing of undesirable babies] which might seem contrary to human nature, was almost universal before the rise of Christianity.
...In antiquity, when male supremacy was unquestioned and Christian ethics were still unknown...a man who took [women] seriously was somewhat despised."

If you aren't interested in books on sociology or history, you can start by just Googling "women's equality" or "history of charity", or "abolitionist history", etc. Look for examples of those movements pre-dating the Bible/Christianity (there aren't any). Happy reading.

Also, you have misused the "no true Scotsman" logical fallacy. Christianity has clear principles and rules, and therefore it is a simple matter to identify who is clearly "not a true Christian." A person who murders, rapes, etc. is clearly not acting as a Christian. The "no true Scotsman" fallacy you shared from Wikipedia is derived from a changing, amorphous nature of what a "true Scotsman" is. The nature of Christian character is not amorphous and is clearly defined in the Bible. I understand that a lot of lowbrow atheist websites like to incorrectly ascribe the "no true Scotsman" fallacy to Christians; but that is why it is better for you to think for yourself and not parrot atheist websites.

I am sorry that you want to enlist my sister's murderer as part of your ignorant crusade against people of faith. I wish that you could have something more ethical and better to do.
Comment Profile ImageScott
Comment #64 | Monday, Aug 12, 2013 at 12:21 pm
Reason - so I take it you are an anti-religion non-believer? You dwell on the negative but completely ignore the positive. Why am I not surprised?
Comment Profile ImageLuigi
Comment #65 | Monday, Aug 12, 2013 at 7:03 pm
Helen&Isaac

I'm not sure if you remember me or my wife Monica. I was in the Air Force with your father and worked for him making frames at his art gallery. I always thought all four of you were very smart and sweet children. We were sorry to hear about Bipsy. We both cannot believe why bad things happen to good people.

Know that our thoughts and prayers are with you.

Luigi
Comment Profile ImageM J
Comment #66 | Tuesday, Sep 3, 2013 at 12:42 pm
I am appalled that so many people have used this forum to state personal opinions about what might have happened and why; especially knowing that the family has been hurt by these events and are reading such thoughtless comments. We all need to study in order to make ourselves more knowledgeable. Before doing that, we should not state information that is not based on knowledge we've gained from our studies or research.

Religion has nothing to do with a Christian lifestyle and a person who truly wishes to follow Christ does not do so through religions or religiousness. No matter what faith a person considers themselves to be, true faith must involve a belief in Christ and the desire to serve Him and live as He would; that's where we all fall short and need forgiveness daily.

The fact that one of the family members has stated that they forgave Mickey shows how true Christ-like behavior is exhibited. We are all supposed to pray for those who anger, hurt or otherwise create feelings within us that could cause us to sin. To the Amirian family, may God keep you and continue to heal your pain and loss.

Article Comments are contributed by our readers, and do not necessarily reflect the views of The Valley News staff. The name listed as the author for comments cannot be verified; Comment authors are not guaranteed to be who they claim they are.

 

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